04-21-2006, 08:35 AM
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#1
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101 Guru
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,461
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Any physicsist in here? (Relativity v. Spooky Action)
Im not really much of a physicist, its just kinda a little hobby of mine so please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Anyways, I was playing a computer game and I had the following thoughts:
Isaac Newton once theorized that the force of gravity affects all objects instantaneously. For example, if someone or something were to remove the Earth completely, the moon would instantaneously feel this gravitational effect.
Einstein's general theory of relativity along with providing the world with a radical new view of gravity, aslo "proved" that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, not even the force of gravity. Thus, it was "proved" that Newton was in error.
However, what if Einstein was wrong and objects can travel faster than the speed of light?
I only say this because for the past few years I've been reading about "quantum teleportation". Using quantum entaglement, physicists have been able to teleport a photon from one end of their lab to the other. Now, as far as I know, this happens "instanteously" (i.e. no passage of time occurs). Well, even an object travelling at the speed of light would take some amount to reach the other end of the lab (.0000000000000000000008) of a second or something. Thus, if quantum teleportation is truly instantaneous, then hasn't the speed of light been broken just as Einstein said couldn't happen.
Also, what about Einstein's special theory of relativity? What will be the effects of dilation upon an object which travels at "instantaneous velocity"? Shouldn't that photon be infinitely older than the lab techs when it is brought back down to our rate of acceleration?
Just some thoughts.
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04-21-2006, 08:51 AM
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#2
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Alrighty then.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yeah, where the **** am I?
Posts: 3,164
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ulnarian
I only say this because for the past few years I've been reading about "quantum teleportation". Using quantum entaglement, physicists have been able to teleport a photon from one end of their lab to the other. Now, as far as I know, this happens "instanteously" (i.e. no passage of time occurs). Well, even an object travelling at the speed of light would take some amount to reach the other end of the lab (.0000000000000000000008) of a second or something. Thus, if quantum teleportation is truly instantaneous, then hasn't the speed of light been broken just as Einstein said couldn't happen.
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I don't believe so. There was a recent event in the news ('bout 5 years ago) when it was claimed that information could be sent faster than light. They poken an electron into this stuff and one came out the other side faster than the speed of light. However, it wasn't the same electron so the theory of relativity was never broken.
The theory of relativity doesn't say you can't /get/ from one point in space to another faster than the speed of light, or get information there that fast, it just says nothing can /travel/ there that fast. Most people take relativity as fact now days and don't try to break it. Doesn't mean it can't be totally bypassed though.
I don't know a lot about quantum theory but one thing about it I am aware of is that particles can be in more than one place at the same time. This is probably where "quantum teleportation" comes from.
I don't know about gravity. It's a field though so there really isn't anything that is traveling. One theory I read is that gravity is actually a warp in space. If you removed the sink then the warp would go away. But I don't really know.
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“Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.” – Brian W. Kernighan
When you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, stop digging.
I think in code: while(1) execute();
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04-21-2006, 09:06 AM
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#3
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101 Guru
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nroberts
I
I don't know about gravity. It's a field though so there really isn't anything that is traveling. One theory I read is that gravity is actually a warp in space. If you removed the sink then the warp would go away. But I don't really know.
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Yeah, thats Einstein's general theory of relativity. Basically, Newton described gravity as an instantaneous "attraction" between two objects. The greater the mass, the greater the objects "pulled" on each other.
Einstein didn't like this theory so he came up with his own. Not only is gravity actually a warp in space, its a warp in time! Imagined that you had yourself a nice big square of spandex. Then, you stretch it out. Einstein would call the spandex "the universe". Now, to see what gravity really is, imagine placing a bowling ball on that spandex. You will notice that the universe sinks under the weight of the bowling ball. Now if you roll a marble across the spandex, you'll notice that it will fall towards the bowling ball if it gets to close to the hole created by the bowling ball. This is gravity 
The more massive an object, the greater the warp on time/space. For example, if you were to approach a black hole (assuming they exist), which is a very massive object, you would notice that time would slow down for your while everyone else ages.
So yeah, thats the modern view of gravity. Thanks for the electron experiement information, I'll look into that |
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04-21-2006, 09:48 AM
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#4
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101 Guru
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: United States of Texas
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Interesting discussion, but one thing I didn't see pointed out was this reference to speed of light and gravitational pull all being relative.
Pure speculation, such as the existance of God, but there would be no way for an object large enough to create a gravitational force to move unless there was an implosion of the matter. Thus an implosion would generate a black hole. But then you would have to consider critical density based on negative square root formulations from zero velocity...
I would recommend a study of The Reissner-Nordström Geometry when discussing black holes as it is very informative...
I smoked a lot of weed and studied a lot of philosophy while I was in college back in the day... This stuff was always making sense back then... Go figure.
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04-21-2006, 10:04 AM
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#5
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Alrighty then.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yeah, where the **** am I?
Posts: 3,164
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by El_jalepeno
Pure speculation, such as the existance of God, but there would be no way for an object large enough to create a gravitational force to move unless there was an implosion of the matter. Thus an implosion would generate a black hole. But then you would have to consider critical density based on negative square root formulations from zero velocity...
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Huh? 
__________________
The more sex we have the more we want and the less sex we have the more we want.
“Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.” – Brian W. Kernighan
When you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, stop digging.
I think in code: while(1) execute();
I'd rather die when I'm living then when I'm dead.
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04-21-2006, 10:07 AM
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#6
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101 Guru
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,461
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nroberts
Huh? |
^^^ |
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