Anyone else Anti Hip-Hop!

[DannyBoy]

I get the impression from you Riff (correct me if i am wrong) that the only music you really like is 80's metal. Which is kinda funny because most of that 80's bollocks is just as commercial and fake than alot of the shit around in the charts today. You almost contradict yourself by trying to be "cool" or "different". I am sure there are other genres you like so enlighten me as to what they are. because in my book EVERY Genre has something to offer.

Even Hip-Hop ... while i do agree alot of it today is bollocks ... if you dig deeper and go back in time to find some more there is some truly cool Rap music floating around in the world of music. 2-Pac is an artists i have respect for. Alot of his songs have a real message to them. trying to unite the "brothers" if you will . Which is positive and cool and he was something of a good role model (in some ways) to children and young adults.

I DO agree alot of moern trash is without real talent and has no real message. and i agree they should be called a "group" not a "band" when they dont play their own insturments. BUT don't turn your nose up at everything that isn't 80's metal/rock because you may miss out on some great tunes man.

Don't take offense... would just be a shame for someone to miss out on a world of great stuff.

[Goport]

Originally Posted by Pee Jay

Well Porty we are about the same age. But I have to disagree with you on this one.

Rap is not the new Blues - not even close man. And I'm not trying to take anything away from Rap or Hip Hop. But the two styles aren't even close to comparing history wise.

Actually you can trace Blues roots back to the American Civil War, but lets move ahead a little.

In the early days of the Blues - when the black folks started coming up North to Chicago out of the cotton fields of Louisiana and Mississippi - they had nothing in common what so ever with todays youth. Those early black musicians experienced a form of racism that is hard to find these days. Blacks couldn't enter a diner or club through the front door - or drink out of the same drinking fountain as whites. They couldn't work the same jobs or even live in the same neighborhoods as their white counterparts. It was blatant racism.

Black kids these days sure enough do run into racism - it's not totally gone. But it's hardly comparable to what it was like back then. The lives of those early Black Bluesman were NOTHING like what todays Rappers and Hip Hoppers have lived through.

Back then - the black Bluesman didn't dress like a Pimp or a Slut either. The TRUE Bluesman would wear a full, nice looking suit. With nicely trimmed hair, and a nice pair of shoes. The women of the Blues didn't dress like whores either and they didn't act like sluts. There is no comparision.

Bluesman of the day also played stringed instruments - guitars, banjo's, harps, upright basses ect. You'd be hard pressed to find a Rap or Hip Hop band where the main instrument used is a stringed instrument. Oh sure there might be a few - but they are the exception and not the rule.

Rap and Hip Hop music theory wise is like night and day. Blues is based on the 12 bar harmonic progression. (One Four Five) You'd be hard pressed to find a Rap or Hip Hop song that uses that as it's musical base.

And if you REALLY wanna get to where the rubber meets the road - Rap was invented by the early Bluesman! Skip James, born Nehemiah Curtis James about 1902 in rural Mississippi near Bentonia, talks about “rappin’ along” in the 1920s. About the same time “Big” Willie Dixon, in Vicksburg, was writing his first song, “Signifying Monkey,” a piece straight out of the age-old convention of “signifying” – better known now as “rapping.”

So to me - I find it a real stretch to say Rap is the new Blues music.

Yeah fair comments Paul. Thankyou for going into detail as well. the saying "Rap is the new blues" is a soundbite I picked up on and hadn't really given that a great deal of thought to be honest.

I would continue to argue the case for rap on this thread but some of the other glib baseless remarks (not yours) make it pretty meaningless to attempt to contribute further. I am staying out

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by Goport

Yeah fair comments Paul. Thankyou for going into detail as well. the saying "Rap is the new blues" is a soundbite I picked up on and hadn't really given that a great deal of thought to be honest.

I would continue to argue the case for rap on this thread but some of the other glib baseless remarks (not yours) make it pretty meaningless to attempt to contribute further. I am staying out

It's cool dood. I love Music history.

[Stiglar]

Originally Posted by SuckaInA3Piece

I really can't believe all that I've read here. I really can't. I'd join in again, but what's the point.

I've got to agree , I've seen people complain about these types of threads saying that music and art is all subjective , but it's not the thread that sucks , It's when it can't be argued civally that it gets pointless !

Originally Posted by Blues=

If I had the patience to listen to a bunch of rap I would site specific lyrics

What do you say to a comment like that ? I don't think i could ever enter an argument without even hearing the music i was arguing against .

I used to hate hip hop and rap as well , but i only listened to waht i heard on the radio , these days i actually play in a rap/hip hop band , after i heard some of the stuff i was missing out on . and it aint an easy gig sometimes !

It's cool to have your musical preferences , but these generalised statements just come out of ignorance to the genre. open your ears a bit and give it a go. and if you don't wanna give it a go that's cool as well! just don't come into these threads pretending like you know all about it then state that you don't have the patience to actually listen to it , it just makes you sound ridiculous .

[Blues=]

Originally Posted by Stiglar

I've got to agree , I've seen people complain about these types of threads saying that music and art is all subjective , but it's not the thread that sucks , It's when it can't be argued civally that it gets pointless !


What do you say to a comment like that ? I don't think i could ever enter an argument without even hearing the music i was arguing against .

I used to hate hip hop and rap as well , but i only listened to waht i heard on the radio , these days i actually play in a rap/hip hop band , after i heard some of the stuff i was missing out on . and it aint an easy gig sometimes !

It's cool to have your musical preferences , but these generalised statements just come out of ignorance to the genre. open your ears a bit and give it a go. and if you don't wanna give it a go that's cool as well! just don't come into these threads pretending like you know all about it then state that you don't have the patience to actually listen to it , it just makes you sound ridiculous .

I said I couldn't state artist/title and lyrics. I am forced to hear a lot of rap where I am.
It's not all radio rap, cause it's not edited
I stated my opinions. Based on what I've been subjected to.(bubble gum, radio, gangster, german,and christian rap)
I never told anyone they were ignorant or ridiculous
and if you love rap so much, why defend it in a thread asking who is Anti- hip hop.
I came here to agree and you obviosly came here lookin for a fight.

And I never said anything about Knowing all about rap.

I will debate my opinion and yours but don't make up quotes for me, please

Rob

[DannyBoy]

Originally Posted by Blues=

I said I couldn't state artist/title and lyrics. I am forced to hear a lot of rap where I am.
It's not all radio rap, cause it's not edited
I stated my opinions. Based on what I've been subjected to.(bubble gum, radio, gangster, german,and christian rap)
I never told anyone they were ignorant or ridiculous
and if you love rap so much, why defend it in a thread asking who is Anti- hip hop.
I came here to agree and you obviosly came here lookin for a fight.

And I never said anything about Knowing all about rap.

I will debate my opinion and yours but don't make up quotes for me, please

Rob

I think Stiglars point is totally valid. These threads are open for debate (as long as it stays friendly) And speaking from experience here, Stiglar is a very cool guy and wouldn't start anything with anybody. He's just making a point the same as you.

[Stiglar]

Originally Posted by Blues=

I said I couldn't state artist/title and lyrics. I am forced to hear a lot of rap where I am.

It's not all radio rap, cause it's not edited

I stated my opinions. Based on what I've been subjected to.(bubble gum, radio, gangster, german,and christian rap)

I never told anyone they were ignorant or ridiculous

and if you love rap so much, why defend it in a thread asking who is Anti- hip hop.

I came here to agree and you obviosly came here lookin for a fight.



And I never said anything about Knowing all about rap.



I will debate my opinion and yours but don't make up quotes for me, please



Rob

I never made up quotes about you . .i was saying YOUR statements made you look pretty ignorant and ridiculous .. maybe it wasn't your intention i dunno ,


I didn't come here to start anything. i calmly watched this thread from afar and watched several members of the board try and give good reasons as to why people should maybe give rap/hip hop another chance or that maybe some are judging a bit quick.I also watched you reply many times with generalised negative statements about the entire genre ,

If you make general statements doesn't that assume you must know a fair bit about it ?

It doesn't really matter what you've been subjected too you haven't heard ALL rap, so if someone gives you advice (or even 3 or 4) that maybe there are some other artists that are better than the stuff you seem to hearing on the radio why not give it a go ?

Yeah i love rap and i will defend it in many threads that bag it out , just like other people would jump in on a thread if i started it saying that blues was garbage (not that i think it is)

Anyway I should prolly just bow out of this thread like some of the other members , Enjoy.

[Wolfman]

Well, I didn't really have much to say about this when the thread started, but I think I need to say more than "I don't like it". First of all, because it's not entirely accurate, and second because it's kind of a lame contribution to the discussion. I don't have any intentions of offending or alienating anyone, so I'm sorry if I should do so.

So, I think I need to clarify what it is I don't like, and it's not the genre of music itself. Rather, it's the self-driven stereotype surrounding the culture of hip-hop, because that's become the dominating facet of the genre. That's just the thing - hip-hop is an entire culture, and not just a form of music (which is what people tend to debate more than anything; Is it music, or is it not?). It's the culture that tends to determine our opinions more than the music, which is not really fair to the genre itself.

What I DO like about hip-hop is that it has the most infectious grooves that make you want to get up and shake your moneymaker. Now, people either like to dance or they don't, obviously. It's got a ton of energy to it and makes you want to be MOVING, no matter how you do it. If you try to argue the merits of hip-hop with people that listen to nothing but death metal, you'll get nowhere - it's like trying to get poker players interested in playing a robust round of Rummy, or vice versa. LOL I'll admit that in the early 90's, I used to go to clubs with my buddies when "house" music was the shit - MC Hammer, C&C Music Factory, etc. - and I had a fucking ball. Plus, I wasn't a bad dancer, so I wasn't too upset when the chickie-babes gave me attention for it.

BTW - that's me in the center of the crowd there, circa 1991 ---------------------------->

I do think there are similarities between the blues and hip-hop, in that they are forms driven by oppression and emotional catalysts. However, from there on out, I don't think there is much similarity except that their origins were from the black community. So - is it music? Well, yeah - of course it is. Badminton is a sport, whether wrestling fans want to admit it or not. Make sense? I think that most musicians that play instruments, or even people that admire good instrument players tend to turn their nose up at hip-hop because of the lack of multiple instruments and the presence of sampled loops. I personally hate when artists take someone else's songs and rip off a lick or riff for their own use. Case in point - I can't listen to Queen's "Under Pressure" to this day since Vanilla Ice did "Ice Ice Baby" - it ruined the original song for me. Plus, I think Vanilla Ice was a huge fraud to begin with, but I'll get to that in a minute. However, when originality takes the forefront, it can be one of the most creative genres of music.

Hip-hop exactly embodies one of the things we look for in music - which is something different, something new, something groundbreaking. This is where the similarites to the blues end for me, and hip-hop takes on a life of its' own. I honestly used to hate the idea of scratching, etc - I used to think it was gimmicky. Now I realize that it's something that takes a real talent that I could never do personally. There's your instrumentalist in hip-hop right there.
You like it or you don't. I don't like pan flute players necessairly, but I can't argue that they aren't musicians playing an instrument now, can I?

Now, on to the thing that I despise about hip-hop, the culture. Perhaps it is a stereotype that I am allowing myself to fixate on, and I'm open to someone changing my thinking on it. Regardless, all I can think of when I think of hip-hop is thugdom (blatant vocal disrespect of authority), violence (guns, threatening talk), utter direspect of women ("bitches", "ho's", women as objects), drug abuse (worship of weed is an obvious given in most cases), obsession with material possessions and wealth, and inflated egos (the whole look of "you say one wrong thing to me, and I'm gonna cap your ass"). I also don't like that the culture encourages looking sloppy - showing off your ass crack with pants falling off and oversized jerseys is simply not my idea of looking your best. Sorry. LOL

The next thing I want to mention is something I am undecided on whether it is entirely good or bad per se, and that's the idea of an entire lingo being created within the culture. Sometimes it's fun to have new street words that make it fun to talk to other people in, but I think it's something that's gotten out of hand. One of the biggest issues I have with most of these artists is that they not only have a difficult time speaking what the rest of the world considers "proper" english, but they seem to take pride in what comes across as uneducated. Our language and vocabulary as people is always evolving and changing, so new lingo is just a continuation of that. I read an article recently about how the whole context of the word "sucks" has changed in American culture. Whereas it originated from obvious acts and was considered taboo to say, it is now widely accepted because the connotation has changed to mean that something stinks or is unfavorable. But I can't see how we are going to integrate the idea of derogatory terms like "bitch" and "ho" to be acceptable replacements in everyday conversation.

Ever notice how so many blues artists just happened to be one-legged, blind, poor folk from cotton country that were born without a cent or a thread on their back? Or how every country artist grew up in a holler with 47 siblings, a father that worked in a coal mine while they broke horses for a living to make ends meet? It's bullshit 7 times out of 10, right? So why do most hip-hop artists feel the need to portray themselves as being from rough streets and fighting for their survival, especially when so many of them are lying? That's why I mentioned Vanilla Ice before. Perhaps they didn't come from royal bloodlines or white-collar upper/upper-middle class backgrounds, but I find it hard to believe that so many hip-hop artists were born in Compton or some ghetto that they had to crawl and scratch their way out of - and just happened to be noticed by a record executive. It's fraudelent, and mostly likely a marketing ploy, but I'll stop there ... I'm sure you get the idea.

The biggest issue to me is that after years of fighting for equal rights, respect, and integration - the black community is being done a huge disservice by an art form that in turn alienates and intentionally separates them from other cultures. Furthermore, it feeds the unjust stereotype of black people that they fought so hard for years to erase - uneducated, prone to violence, etc. I personally have never allowed myself to be openly predjudiced against black people or any other ethnicity other than my own, because I believe that all people are created equal and all have the same capacity to contribute to society, be educated, excel in their choice of profession, be morally acceptable, and be loved or respected. Therefore, I don't like the way this form of art recreates rifts in society that we had been able to repair, at least to a certain extent.

As a side note - guess who my favorite actors are, being a caucasian male? Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, Cuba Gooding, and Will Smith top the list. Deniro would be the first white guy to hit the list after that. I have a hell of a lot more respect for Queen Latifah than I do Madonna. The athletes I admire for their talent and excellence are predominantly black or of hispanic heritage far more often than they are white athletes. When it ocmes to political figures, I'll take the Jesse Jacksons and Nelson Mandelas over the ignorant selfish white manipulators we put in office and give power to. Give me George Washington Carver over John Delorean anyday. Maybe I'm being defensive to validate my arguments, but I'm trying to prove that my opinions on this are not racist. I have a hell of a bigger problem with white trash, as well as spoon-fed uppercrust whites that have never had to work a day in their life, but that's an entirely different subject.

Anyway, my take on hip-hop is this, in a nutshell. Yes, I believe it is music and there is some that I like. I would like it a lot more if there wasn't so much of the negative culture-related stuff that I've discussed and I didn't feel like I was supporting things that are against my character, judgment, and moral fiber (as unintentionally high-fallutin' as that sounds ). Perhaps it is just a result of overzealous and misguided marketing. I don't think it has to be a squeaky-clean image, but it does need to be cleaned up and less extreme and stereotype-reinforcing.

[Carmine]

So...what are ya trying to say Wolf.


j/k

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Carmine

So...what are ya trying to say Wolf.


j/k

Sorry. If I give my true opinion on anything, I tend to go all out. LOL

[Jossy]

I don't hate any music genere...There is good stuff and bad stuff everywhere...i prefer to try to find the good stuff...and concentrate on it...As BB King sayed in an interview i read (i hope i can remember it correctly): "There is no bad music...only music presented badly"...

Saludos.

[Riff Addict]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I get the impression from you Riff (correct me if i am wrong) that the only music you really like is 80's metal. Which is kinda funny because most of that 80's bollocks is just as commercial and fake than alot of the shit around in the charts today.

Only a "tiny" percentage of the 80's metal I listen to is commercial. Iron Maiden isn't commercial at all, 98% of Judas Priest isn't commercial, 99% of Black Sabbath isn't, Pantera isn't, 95% of Queensryche isn't, Black label Society, only a fraction of Motley Crue songs went commercial, but I do like some commercial metal and what's wrong with that? Dokken is a great commercial metal band, so is Y&T, Def Leppard, The Scorpions, Michael Schenker Group, Van Halen, etc.

I also love bands like Journey, U2, Night Ranger, Satriani, John Waite, Pat Benetar, Bon Jovi, Queen, ZZ Top, Blackfoot, Lynard Skynard, Stryper, Tora Tora, Kiss, Ted Nugent, Ozzy, galactic Cowboys, King's X, Racer X, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Foriegner, Bad Company....many more.

I dislike Jazz, most straight blues (I like bluesy rock), most speed metal/death metal, most progressive solo instumental stuff, (Vai)..sorry....except for his Rock contibutions via Whitesnake, and most country, reggae and hip/hop/soul/r&b.

I was raised around old 50's rock n roll then 60's rock from my parents. I turned to hard rock/metal as a teenager and thats the music I love. If a song doesn't have a "rock" foundation, I can't get into it. Metal is powerful, energetic, fun, and there's nothing like pounding drums and crunchy riffs to get me going. I do however need a ballad or two or a bit of southern rock once in a while.

[Goport]

Originally Posted by Riff Addict

Only a "tiny" percentage of the 80's metal I listen to is commercial. Iron Maiden isn't commercial at all, 98% of Judas Priest isn't commercial, 99% of Black Sabbath isn't, Pantera isn't, 95% of Queensryche isn't, Black label Society, only a fraction of Motley Crue songs went commercial, but I do like some commercial metal and what's wrong with that? Dokken is a great commercial metal band, so is Y&T, Def Leppard, The Scorpions, Michael Schenker Group, Van Halen, etc.

I also love bands like Journey, U2, Night Ranger, Satriani, John Waite, Pat Benetar, Bon Jovi, Queen, ZZ Top, Blackfoot, Lynard Skynard, Stryper, Tora Tora, Kiss, Ted Nugent, Ozzy, galactic Cowboys, King's X, Racer X, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Foriegner, Bad Company....many more.

I dislike Jazz, most straight blues (I like bluesy rock), most speed metal/death metal, most progressive solo instumental stuff, (Vai)..sorry....except for his Rock contibutions via Whitesnake, and most country, reggae and hip/hop/soul/r&b.

I was raised around old 50's rock n roll then 60's rock from my parents. I turned to hard rock/metal as a teenager and thats the music I love. If a song doesn't have a "rock" foundation, I can't get into it. Metal is powerful, energetic, fun, and there's nothing like pounding drums and crunchy riffs to get me going. I do however need a ballad or two or a bit of southern rock once in a while.

Nice reply mate

Except Iron Maiden were a massive money making machine in the UK (mine and Dannys homecountry) But I can't vouch for their success overseas so you are probably right

[Riff Addict]

Originally Posted by Goport

Nice reply mate

Except Iron Maiden were a massive money making machine in the UK (mine and Dannys homecountry) But I can't vouch for their success overseas so you are probably right

Thanks mate..that about sums up my little world. I guess its just exposure early on and individual taste that makes myself or anyone who they are.

[DannyBoy]

Wolf... That is by far the best post i have ever read on this site. And it sums things up perfectly. Things that i have long been thinking but not found the right words to explain. The culture of modern hip-hop degrades pretty much the entire Black community. And gives todays youth many non-truths about those people and what is right and wrong.

I won't get back into it but that was a great post and thanks for taking so much time to type it.

Riff... If that's your bag then good on you. But i aplore you to give other things a try now and then. There's more to life than 80's metal lol. I was raised on Dire Straits and Chris De Burgh and Thin Lizzy. My favourite artists these days are Danny Danzi, Alter Bridge, Steve Vai, Coldplay, Muse and Yngwie etc. But i do like alot of stuff if its "real" no matter what Genre it may be