Anyone else Anti Hip-Hop!

[rjfoster]

There's something you need to keep in mind when discussing things you see in the media.

A) It's not always a reflection of reality - unless reality is whats making them money.

B) The media in many ways "create reality" by repeatedly blasting your brain with images and messeges until you decide that "it must be real because I've seen / heard it so many times."

Need proof?

Watch a modeling program some time - you know, the kind where the female models walk the stage to show off new clothing designs. Now ask yourself "Do these women look like the average american woman?" The answer will be no, and yet this is supposed to be the desirable "look" for the modern female. (You know, skinny - almost too skinny, perfect skin, perfect hair etc.) We have had that crap shoved down our throats for so long that men expect women to look that way, and women are disappointed when they don't. What kind of crap is that???

So, when you see these ads for McDonalds, Apple iPod, etc that show the punk ass "g funks" wearing their pants down off their asses, with their caps cocked sideways, showing their "gang colors", listening to hip hop, and chewin' on a big ol' greazy ass quarter pounder whilst pounding whats left of their brain with the rhythmic nonsense of hip hop, make sure you consider the source, and then try to decide for yourself what reality is.

Need a challenge? Try staying away from the TV and Radio for a whole week - I'll bet your outlook on life will change - for the positive.

Rj

[Jeffery Bravo]

Originally Posted by Teleplayer324

Ever listen to Robert Johnson? His stuff was considered pretty racy for the time. What you hear in rap is no different than what you heard in alot of the 80's metal bands, they are just a bit more up front about how they say it.
It wasn't rap artists that were all over the news for trashing hotels, having lines of groupies in and out of those same rooms and all the other excesses associated with rock and roll.
How many rappers have OD'd the way rockers have?
I'm not saying rap is for everyone, I'm not even saying I listen to much of it, what I am saying is that there is nothing being done or said in rap that hasn't been done or said before in rock or blues. Rappers are just more upfront about how they phrase things and don't hide what they are saying behind trite allegories so that they can sneak it past a major record label.

They don't have time to OD, they either go to prison or they get shot at by rival gangbangers . The rap music isn't about singing or melody, it's about putting up a groove that a 10 year old can do, look at a bathrrom stall maybe for inspiration, write your trash lyrics, get a posse together for the video and you are a 15 minute star. You can't compare john lee hooker, robert cray, hendrix, BB king , 80's rock 90's rock to that garbage. Wake up.

[Jeffery Bravo]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I get the impression from you Riff (correct me if i am wrong) that the only music you really like is 80's metal. Which is kinda funny because most of that 80's bollocks is just as commercial and fake than alot of the shit around in the charts today. You almost contradict yourself by trying to be "cool" or "different". I am sure there are other genres you like so enlighten me as to what they are. because in my book EVERY Genre has something to offer.

Even Hip-Hop ... while i do agree alot of it today is bollocks ... if you dig deeper and go back in time to find some more there is some truly cool Rap music floating around in the world of music. 2-Pac is an artists i have respect for. Alot of his songs have a real message to them. trying to unite the "brothers" if you will . Which is positive and cool and he was something of a good role model (in some ways) to children and young adults.

I DO agree alot of moern trash is without real talent and has no real message. and i agree they should be called a "group" not a "band" when they dont play their own insturments. BUT don't turn your nose up at everything that isn't 80's metal/rock because you may miss out on some great tunes man.

Don't take offense... would just be a shame for someone to miss out on a world of great stuff.

Alright dude, seriously, i have heard 2-Pac, what am i missin? I hear nothing of quality in his songs, give me an example of why he was good.???

[Jeffery Bravo]

Originally Posted by Blues=

Look this sux!
This is the first post I'm making out of discontentment. Till now,I have been stating my opinion and takin in the responses. But...

I relplied to an anti hip hop thread.
Some of you came here to defend hip hop. I think poorly of that, but I'm not calling people names.

I don't reply to who hates (fill in the blank) threads, if I don't want to hear it.
I think a few of you should do the same!

Now my opinion is I don't like hip hop. The only way to prove me wrong is to show I actually love hip hop.


I actually agreed with most of the people here, about what sux.


.

Stiglar you said I never even heard the music..
The god damn thread is about commercial hip hop. I've heard alot!!!!

You called me ignorant and ridiculous. Because I can't repeat all the lyrics I don't like. I never said I never heard it.
I said I've heard alot, and to recite lyrics I'd have to do research, and I'm not willing to listen to hundred of hrs of it.

You also claimed I said I know all about it. Wrong again!

look, you're grasping at straws...the only thing you haven't thrown at me is to attack my typing.

Reread the thread.


Dannyboy,
Untill this post I have been very cool. I stated my opinion, and defended it against attack.
I never shat on what anyone else said, unless thay had me wrong.
I never said anyones opinion of rap was wrong. I argued with people who told me my opinion was wrong.
And when they couldn't twist my words they made up things.

If I'm starting trouble in everyone's opinion here just tell me.
I see more childish "FUCK YOU" wars here than anywhere else I post.
If the skin is so thin here, that I can't disagree with a person who misquotes me and another that insists I'm wrong about my own fuckin opinion...thats sad


I've had a fairly good time around here, untill I got to this thread.

Rob

Dude- I know Stiglar, and he is one of the most supportive ppl on the site. I don't think at all he was trying to attack you. seriously, i have similar opinions as you, but this is about promoting music. we are all hear to learn, I may check out some of the tunes from the list sucka put up, but right now i dislike what the (general) genre represents.

[Blues=]

Flair, I dropped it along time ago.
I had a nice talk with wolfman (behind the scenes) and I let what's his face have the last word.

Hope to talk to you on another thread
Rob

[DannyBoy]

Originally Posted by flair

Alright dude, seriously, i have heard 2-Pac, what am i missin? I hear nothing of quality in his songs, give me an example of why he was good.???

You seem to have already made your mind up a long time ago how you feel about rap/hip-hop and so i doubt anything i could possibly say would change your mind. But since you asked i will explain again. While alot of 2-Pac's music was party style hip-hop music he does have a handful of peices with some very nice lyrics. the song "Dear Mama" was written for his mother and how she raised him and his sister by herself working late yet still managing to raise a man. I find it to be a nice peice and well written. Talking about the times he went to jail and how he did become a star. Here's the lyrics:

When I was young me and my mama had beef
17 years old kicked out on the streets
Though back at the time I never thought I'd see her face
Ain't a woman alive that could take my mamas place
Suspended from school, scared to go home
I was a fool with the big boys, breaking all the rules
Shed tears with my baby sister
Over the years we was poorer than the other little kids
And even though we had different daddies
The same drama, when things went wrong we blamed mama
I reminisce on the stress I caused, it was hell
Huggin' on my mama from a jail cell
And who'd think in elementary, hey I'd see the penitentiary
One day, running from the police that’s right
Mama catch me, put a whoopin' to my backside
And even as a crack fiend mama
You always was a black queen mama
I finally understand for a woman it ain't easy trying to raise a man
You always was committed, poor single mother on welfare
Tell me how you did it, there's no way I can pay you back
But the plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

(Chorus)
Lady, don't ya know we love ya
Sweet lady, place no one above ya
Sweet lady, don't ya know we love ya

Now ain't nobody tell us it was fair
No love for my daddy 'cos the coward wasn’t there
He passed away and I didn't cry
'Cos my anger wouldn't let me feel for a stranger
They say I'm wrong and I'm heartless
But all along I was looking for a father, he was gone
I hung around with the thugs and even though they sold drugs
They showed a young brother love
I moved out and started really hangin'
I needed money of my own so I started slangin'
I ain't guilty, 'cos even though I sell rocks
It feels good putting money in your mailbox
I love paying rent when the rent's due
I hope you got the diamond necklace that I sent to you
'Cos when I was low you was there for me
You never left me alone 'cos you cared for me
And I can see you coming home after work, late
You're in the kitchen tryin' to fix us a hot plate
Just working with the scraps you was given
And mama made miracles every Thanksgiving
But now the road got rough, you're alone
Tryin' to raise two bad kids on your own
And there's no way I can pay you back
But my plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

(Chorus)

Pour out some liquor and I reminisce
'Cos through the drama, I can always depend on my mama
And when it seems that I'm hopeless
You say the words that can get me back in focus
When I was sick as a little kid
To keep me happy, there’s no limit to the things you did
And all my childhood memories
Are full of all the sweet things you did for me
And even though I act crazy
I got to thank the Lord the you made me
There are no words that can express how I feel
You never kept a secret, always stayed real
And I appreciate how you raised me
And all the extra love that you gave me
I wish I could take the pain away
If you can make it through the night, there's a brighter day
Everything will be alright if you hold on
It's a struggle, everyday gotta roll on
And there's no way I can pay you back
But my plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated.


This shows that 2-Pac was about more than just "banging ho's" and "pimpin" and "partyin" and all that shit you hear in every single hip hop song today. He wrote about things that really mattered to him. Not ALL the time. but enough to set him apart in my eyes. also the song Changes which although is a sort of remix of an earlier song is still full of messages about how the world and particularly the "brothers" have to start making changes.

If you don't like hip-hop you won't care. But theres stuff there that has meaning. Stuff that is real and from the heart. It may not be the best music in the world but for me personally if someone is truly real and from the heart through their music i will admire it and respect it even if i dont always like the sound of it musically.

Think whatever you want it really makes no difference to me Flair.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[DannyBoy]

Dug up his lyrics for the song "Changes" too. Some of these lyrics are very potent if ya ask me (which you did)

Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares
one less hungry mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope and let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other
We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things change, and that's the way it is

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
(Repeat)

-2-
I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and the only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
I made a G today But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kids. I gotta get paid,
Well hey, that's the way it is

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
(Repeat)

Talking:
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

-3-
And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets and the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp smack you up
You gotta learn to hold ya own
~they get~ jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone
But tell the cops they can't touch this
I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool
my mama didn't raise no fool
And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped
and I never get to lay back
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
some buck that I roughed up way back
comin' back after all these years
rat-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah

You're my brother, you're my sister
That's just the way it is (way it is,way it is)
Things will never be the same
You're my brother, you're my sister
That's the way it is
Aww yeah

Some things will never change

[KC_ArtRocker]

Originally Posted by rjfoster

Need a challenge? Try staying away from the TV and Radio for a whole week - I'll bet your outlook on life will change - for the positive.

Rj

I did this purposely in my early 20s. I spent 4-1/2 years living in an apartment built into the top of a barn out in the middle of nowhere on some people's land. There was no TV reception/cable, no newspapers or magazines, no internet at the time and I did not listen to the radio. I did it specifically to see what would happen to my personality without the influence of the media, and also to focus on getting better at guitar and to record song ideas. I did change for the better in my opinion, however, once I "came back to civilization" I was terribly disoriented from what was going on in pop culture and, still to this day, I am often asked if I have seen certain movies and I am just like... . But otherwise it was a great experience for that time in my life.

But back to the main topic of this thread......I do not like most hip-hop primarily because it is excessively repetetive. There is rarely a song structure with multiple parts (it is usually the same beat/sound the whole way through the song). That is just too boring for me. It also rubs me the wrong way how a lot of these rappers that I see on MTV Cribs and in "music" videos are WAY too into presenting the image of being pimp daddy bling master more than they are about any productive message or about the love of music. I can't even stand to watch MTV Cribs because they often feature these idiot rappers with these huge ass mansions and driving Bentleys and wearing all this bling when most of them will be pennyless in a few years.

[Riff Addict]

Originally Posted by kc_artist_rocker

It also rubs me the wrong way how a lot of these rappers that I see on MTV Cribs and in "music" videos are WAY too into presenting the image of being pimp daddy bling master more than they are about any productive message or about the love of music. I can't even stand to watch MTV Cribs because they often feature these idiot rappers with these huge ass mansions and driving Bentleys and wearing all this bling when most of them will be pennyless in a few years.

I agree!

[Jeffery Bravo]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Dug up his lyrics for the song "Changes" too. Some of these lyrics are very potent if ya ask me (which you did)

Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares
one less hungry mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope and let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other
We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things change, and that's the way it is

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
(Repeat)

-2-
I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and the only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
I made a G today But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kids. I gotta get paid,
Well hey, that's the way it is

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
(Repeat)

Talking:
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

-3-
And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets and the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp smack you up
You gotta learn to hold ya own
~they get~ jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone
But tell the cops they can't touch this
I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool
my mama didn't raise no fool
And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped
and I never get to lay back
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
some buck that I roughed up way back
comin' back after all these years
rat-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

Chorus:
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah

You're my brother, you're my sister
That's just the way it is (way it is,way it is)
Things will never be the same
You're my brother, you're my sister
That's the way it is
Aww yeah

Some things will never change

Wow- dude i stand corrected, i don't like the music, but those are pretty deep lyrics.

[VanMan2000]

Originally Posted by The Ulnarian

Here's an interesting fact though, go over to the RIAA's consumer purchasing trends website and view their 10 year charts. Turns out for the past 10 years, purchasers have consistently purchased approximately twice as many "rock" albums then they have "rap or hiphop" albums. Yet for some reason, I'm bombarded with rap and hiphop in the media (except for Burger Kings "Chicken Fries" commercial and Esteban....) It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

Oh here's the link:

RIAA LINK

The reason for this is simple. I can personally attest to the fact that in two major urban markets (Philadelphia and New York City), the bootleg trade is thriving. Many of these cd's are sold on the streets for less than a third of the retail price. And, almost without question, these cd's being sold are rap and r n b.

[VanMan2000]

Originally Posted by SuckaInA3Piece

Awesome post Goport!

I had a friend see De La Soul a few weeks ago along with John Legend, and he had a great time. Said De La were the highlight of the evenings.

Sucka, you need to look no farther than local legends the Roots for good hip hop. But De La Soul kicks ass as well.

[VanMan2000]

Originally Posted by Teleplayer324

I see rap and hip hop as the modern equivalent of the blues. Now I'm not talking about the stuff you see on mtv or hear on most radio stations, but the "real" stuff, groups like sucka mentioned. Think about it, the blues started out as field calls and turned into a way to vent pain and fustrations. The same thing rap and hip hop does now, using a musical form to vent the pain and point out the social injustices.

This is a brilliant point. Well said.

[The Ulnarian]

Originally Posted by VanMan2000

The reason for this is simple. I can personally attest to the fact that in two major urban markets (Philadelphia and New York City), the bootleg trade is thriving. Many of these cd's are sold on the streets for less than a third of the retail price. And, almost without question, these cd's being sold are rap and r n b.

HAHHAHAHAH, awesome!!!

It's nice to see that if your going to market yourself as a thug and all the BS, that your fans are going to bite you in the ass and act the same

[rjfoster]

Originally Posted by The Ulnarian

HAHHAHAHAH, awesome!!!

It's nice to see that if your going to market yourself as a thug and all the BS, that your fans are going to bite you in the ass and act the same

I just went to your music site - and checked out Fluffies On Meth, LOL I was cracking up big time! All I have to say is you have a very active imagination!!!

(Oh and it's not rap.......)



Rj