Cinco de Mayo & A Day Without An Immigrant within the same week.

[Savickster]

Does anyone think today will be a (more) dreary Cinco de Mayo this year?

Happy Cinco de Mayo and weekend, everyone!

[Guwapo]

Deport Sammy Hagar.

[Riff Addict]

I never celebrate Sink-o-da-my-o. Most Americans have no idea what they're celebrating for, it's just a Mexican holiday, all they just know its a day to drink heavily and go see horrible bands play under tents in a park. I don't even know exactly what its all about. I think it has something to do with Mexicans winning a war against a French dictator who tried to overthrow their country?

Well, mexicans probably don't care about Mexico anymore since they're all over here.

[nroberts]

Originally Posted by Riff Addict

I never celebrate Sink-o-da-my-o. Most Americans have no idea what they're celebrating for, it's just a Mexican holiday, all they just know its a day to drink heavily and go see horrible bands play under tents in a park. I don't even know exactly what its all about. I think it has something to do with Mexicans winning a war against a French dictator who tried to overthrow their country?

Well, mexicans probably don't care about Mexico anymore since they're all over here.

http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm

"...And Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday, but it should be..."

"When the battle was over, many French were killed or wounded and their cavalry was being chased by Diaz' superb horsemen miles away. The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build the greatest army the world had ever seen. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Puebla, essentially ending the Civil War.

Union forces were then rushed to the Texas/Mexican border under General Phil Sheridan, who made sure that the Mexicans got all the weapons and ammunition they needed to expel the French. American soldiers were discharged with their uniforms and rifles if they promised to join the Mexican Army to fight the French. The American Legion of Honor marched in the Victory Parade in Mexico, City. "

"In gratitude, thousands of Mexicans crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces. As recently as the Persian Gulf War, Mexicans flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America.

Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862. VIVA! el CINCO DE MAYO!! "

--- Except it seems we have forgotten...

[El_jalepeno]

I think that article fails to point out the obvious intention is not to fight in a war, but to earn citizenship. This immigration, especially among hispanics, is nothing new...

[nroberts]

Originally Posted by El_jalepeno

I think that article fails to point out the obvious intention is not to fight in a war, but to earn citizenship. This immigration, especially among hispanics, is nothing new...

I was responding to the general hostility toward Mexicans as a whole not to the implied "immigrant problem". I was also providing information about what it was since it was stated that it was not known.

Not all Mexicans are here illegally and that article also points out how they have been willing to help us many times. Celebrating independance and freedom is certainly something I can relate to also...hell, maybe now that I know more about it I'll celebrate it too.

[El_jalepeno]

Originally Posted by nroberts

I was responding to the general hostility toward Mexicans as a whole not to the implied "immigrant problem". I was also providing information about what it was since it was stated that it was not known.

Not all Mexicans are here illegally and that article also points out how they have been willing to help us many times. Celebrating independance and freedom is certainly something I can relate to also...hell, maybe now that I know more about it I'll celebrate it too.

Well here in Texas, and most likely because we nudge up to Mexico in the first place, there are all sorts of festivities ongoing in the first place, and the closer you get to the border (Dallas is around 7 or 8 hours from the border), the more festivities going on. we even have a Cinco De Mayo night tonight at my son's elementary school...

[BleedingPinky]

You know, after reading all the crap thrown out around these threads about inmigration, I´m tending to think something´s cooking and pretty bad smelling over there in the States yet again. It´s been a long time I haven´t been back there. My family is what you would call all "WASP", ancestors have lived in the NC-SC area ever since around the 17th century, but inmigrants as well I guess, . I still remember how some people from my own family used to talk about "the seven tribes" and all that **** (even one of my uncles, who is a presbiterian preacher,....), thought blacks were not like us, etc. Mind you my father couldn´t put up with all that deep south environment and moved out of there long time ago. Well I´m starting to listen ( well read that is) again more or less the same crappy stuff about "wet backs" or mexicans, and it especially irritates me if it´s coming from "second-third" generations of new americans, , but I´m pretty sure those ones in my family who barked that kind of **** still do so. I really don´t know what to think of it really. Maybe they´re right. But something tell´s me when I listen to- read of un-called comments that have nothing to do with other than racial busyness, all I´m percieving is the same ol´lousy short minded pure racism....
I know I went off topic, but I wasn´t the first one, sooo,...

[nroberts]

Originally Posted by BleedingPinky

But something tell´s me when I listen to- read of un-called comments that have nothing to do with other than racial busyness, all I´m percieving is the same ol´lousy short minded pure racism...

Racism is a fact of life here (if not everywhere). Sad but true. Most of the members of my family are racist to some degree...from little stuff you hardly notice (because it is everywhere) to full fledged hating everyone that isn't white, American, hetero-sexual and Christian. I grew up surrounded by it and I don't know anyone that didn't; there is no way that doesn't affect your outlook...it feeds itself and passes on to the next generation. For a couple of decades it remained hidden to some degree but is surfacing again. Arguments and people that wouldn't show their faces in the light of day are out and in force.

Currently we are in a state of emergency in this country involving a poor economy, a degredation of personal freedom, fear of terrorist attacks, war, and a miriad of other complex issues placing our entire populace in a frenzy of frustration, fear, and anger. America is rather dangerous right now...even to each other, and nobody is imune from the effects. The fact that there is a group of people that aren't "us" and can easily be classified as "them" is just convenient and easy.

In times like these people lash out and it is usually directed to a particular group or set of groups that can be pointed at, labeled, and blamed. It is a fact of human nature and can be seen popping out all through history throughout the world and involving all peoples and groups usually coinciding with times of termoil, often economic. Unfortunately I don't know of any case when the end has been good for anyone...usually a lot of pain and often much bloodshed results before there is any stepping back and saying, "This sucks." Sometimes there is a calm after in which life improves until the next cycle of hatred starts but that usually requires SERIOUS damage to everyone to get us there.

[Guwapo]

Originally Posted by nroberts

Racism is a fact of life here (if not everywhere). Sad but true. Most of the members of my family are racist to some degree...from little stuff you hardly notice (because it is everywhere) to full fledged hating everyone that isn't white, American, hetero-sexual and Christian. I grew up surrounded by it and I don't know anyone that didn't; there is no way that doesn't affect your outlook...it feeds itself and passes on to the next generation. For a couple of decades it remained hidden to some degree but is surfacing again. Arguments and people that wouldn't show their faces in the light of day are out and in force.

Currently we are in a state of emergency in this country involving a poor economy, a degredation of personal freedom, fear of terrorist attacks, war, and a miriad of other complex issues placing our entire populace in a frenzy of frustration, fear, and anger. America is rather dangerous right now...even to each other, and nobody is imune from the effects. The fact that there is a group of people that aren't "us" and can easily be classified as "them" is just convenient and easy.

In times like these people lash out and it is usually directed to a particular group or set of groups that can be pointed at, labeled, and blamed. It is a fact of human nature and can be seen popping out all through history throughout the world and involving all peoples and groups usually coinciding with times of termoil, often economic. Unfortunately I don't know of any case when the end has been good for anyone...usually a lot of pain and often much bloodshed results before there is any stepping back and saying, "This sucks." Sometimes there is a calm after in which life improves until the next cycle of hatred starts but that usually requires SERIOUS damage to everyone to get us there.

[wigrocks]

Originally Posted by Guwapo

Deport Sammy Hagar.

LOVE THAT AVATAR!!!! Just made my day!!! Please don't ever change it!!!

[El_jalepeno]

Originally Posted by nroberts

Racism is a fact of life here (if not everywhere). Sad but true. Most of the members of my family are racist to some degree...from little stuff you hardly notice (because it is everywhere) to full fledged hating everyone that isn't white, American, hetero-sexual and Christian. I grew up surrounded by it and I don't know anyone that didn't; there is no way that doesn't affect your outlook...it feeds itself and passes on to the next generation. For a couple of decades it remained hidden to some degree but is surfacing again. Arguments and people that wouldn't show their faces in the light of day are out and in force.

Currently we are in a state of emergency in this country involving a poor economy, a degredation of personal freedom, fear of terrorist attacks, war, and a miriad of other complex issues placing our entire populace in a frenzy of frustration, fear, and anger. America is rather dangerous right now...even to each other, and nobody is imune from the effects. The fact that there is a group of people that aren't "us" and can easily be classified as "them" is just convenient and easy.

In times like these people lash out and it is usually directed to a particular group or set of groups that can be pointed at, labeled, and blamed. It is a fact of human nature and can be seen popping out all through history throughout the world and involving all peoples and groups usually coinciding with times of termoil, often economic. Unfortunately I don't know of any case when the end has been good for anyone...usually a lot of pain and often much bloodshed results before there is any stepping back and saying, "This sucks." Sometimes there is a calm after in which life improves until the next cycle of hatred starts but that usually requires SERIOUS damage to everyone to get us there.

Good post.

[nroberts]

Originally Posted by El_jalepeno

Good post.

Thanks.

I realize everyone has different opinions and I value that fact but on the other hand I feel strongly about many of my own. I also value debate and argument, even if it gets heated - if it didn't then the topic isn't that important to the participants. I might be more diplomatic in person than to an 'anonymous' computer screen but my opinion wouldn't be different and would still get heated.

I also think it is difficult or impossible to argue with or against perceptions alone. They aren't my perceptions and the only thing that I can really do is ask where they come from and question how informed they are. It is important to provide a background or evidence for opinions or the argument will almost invariably end with people just shouting louder and nothing changes; it also lets your oponent know that you really have a reason for feeling as you do as opposed to them just thinking you jumped to conclusions. I find informed opponents much more interesting and constructive in the forming of my own opinions. When I loose an argument I learn something...either that my opinion is mistaken or not well informed...I might go find more ammunition or I might cave...either way, I have learned something and I like to learn things.

At the end of the day I can remain friends with those I disagree with. Some people get too agitated and can't do so; they think you should agree with them or shut up...I can find nothing right about that. I have the right to my opinion, you yours. I don't have to like yours and you don't have to like mine. We can both say so...loudly if we want. We can try to remain impersonal in the argument but **** happens...especially wrt beliefs.

About the immigration issue. I haven't formed an opinion about the problem, if it exists or what should be done if it does. I have found the arguments that it exists unconvincing and the solutions unrealistic and reactionary. It also seems to me to be primarily racially motivated even if there is some kernel of truth in the issue itself. The statements and arguments have a very racial slant to them and I find no truth in that kind of profiling. I also think it is the right of everyone to provide for their family in whatever means they can, including breaking laws, so long as that doesn't impose undue hardships on, or dangers to, other people trying to do the same thing (I default to live and let live)...and so far nobody has been able to show that immigrants, illegal or not, pose undue hardships on the nation's citizens. I feel strongly that this is a symptom of the general problem of frustration amongst us and that certain elements of our community have taken advantage of the situation to further an agenda we might otherwise find very offensive and baffling.