Immigration Practices in the US - Guitars101

El_jalepeno · 07-22-2005, 07:32 AM

There are much larger issues over the simple day labor and Wal-Mart. Many companies bring in aliens with blanket H-IB visas so they can get cheaper work for the same skill set, even though that skillset is supposed to be unavailable. You see this commonly in the IT industry where engineers and programmers are brought over from foreign companies to fill job that Americans are too expensive. Right or wrong? Discuss.

**KC_ArtRocker** · 07-22-2005, 10:34 AM

Well, I read through the other post that spawned this one, and I guess I am the only MOD who thought the video was hilarious! I had no problems with it at all, other than the guy who did it was kind of a goober and probably could have been a little less rude in a few spots. The issue here, at least for me, is not that immigrants are "stealing our jobs." The issue here is that they are illegal immigrants who are not playing by the rules of our land. These people do not pay taxes and end up sending a lot of the money out of the country to families back home. I've worked construction labor in my past and I was making the same amount as some illegal workers, but they were actually making more money than me(!) because they weren't paying any taxes and I was. On top of that, they don't even hardly speak any English, or not much anyway. If you want to hire immigrants at a lower wage than what Americans are used to getting, that is fine, but make them register properly and make them learn at least a certain amount of English and make them pay taxes and learn how to file taxes. This guy didn't take them to the city dump or out in the middle of nowhere to drop them off.....he took them to the illegal immigration place....and they RAN LIKE FUGITIVES!!! Because that's what they are by coming here and not playing by the rules. They ran faster than anyone I ever see on the show, COPS. Why are they running rather than registering for citizenship?

**Beka4MikE** · 07-22-2005, 12:13 PM

I have learned that big business is ALWAYS about Big Dollars and it doesn't matter what company you are that is the bottom line. They will never care about how they make that extra profit just that they get there. I don't think it is wrong to bring people over legally if they are willing to work for what they are offered and if it is within the legal guidelines set up by the goverment. Shame on the person here who turned down the job for that pay scale. However Shame on our own companies for cutting American Jobs and exporting the work to other countries.

**KC_ArtRocker** · 07-22-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike4beka

I have learned that big business is ALWAYS about Big Dollars ......They will never care about how they make that extra profit just that they get there. ........Shame on our own companies for cutting American Jobs and exporting the work to other countries.

Amen to that. It's like selling out our own country.

El_jalepeno · 07-22-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike4beka

...Shame on the person here who turned down the job for that pay scale.

An American worker would have to be given the chance at the position in order to have the ability to turn it down in the first place, and they are rarely given that chance.

ericgtr · 07-22-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_jalepeno

An American worker would have to be given the chance at the position in order to have the ability to turn it down in the first place, and they are rarely given that chance.

True but how many Americans are going to take a job picking lettuce for $3.00 an hour if it is offered, in those situations offering the job to Americans is either pointless or a slap in the face.

**Beka4MikE** · 07-22-2005, 01:36 PM

So you think through all these temp agencies throughout the country that americans are not given the same chances as legal "aliens" ?

**nroberts** · 07-22-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgtr

True but how many Americans are going to take a job picking lettuce for $3.00 an hour if it is offered, in those situations offering the job to Americans is either pointless or a slap in the face.

Going to work for $3 an hour is loosing money in this country. I make $10 an hour, live by myself in a trailer on my mom's property so I have no rent or nothing to pay there, and I often go to her house and raid the fridge. I live comfortably but I certainly don't have a lot of extra money lying around - just gas and lunch eats up a lot of my money. I don't know how other people get by to tell the truth.

On the other hand, as a kid I didn't make much more doing a lot more discusting and hard work.

El_jalepeno · 07-22-2005, 01:53 PM

Let's take a step back... While there are are quite a few illegal aliens making $3 an hour, taxing them would do little becuase those workers are generally seasonal, moving along finding work as needed and getting paid in cash, legal or not.

Looking back into the higher paying industries where a Visa is needed for a worker because there are no resources onshore, paying $60- $70 an hour, and not because those resources are unavailable onshore, but becuase companies do not want to pay for medical and benefits for these contract workers.

I know if I look around here in Dallas, the working climate has changed. In an industry once dominated by Hispanics, fast food and Wal-mart, you are now seeing more caucasions. Sure there are issues where illegals are getting paid dirt cheap, but it is not necessarily true that American workers don't want those jobs, especially in times of no work for one to two years at a time.

The solution is simple, Tougher fines for those who encourage the illegal immigrants working, and a reality check for all those "$30,000 Millionaires" that are trying to compete with the Jones' overextended on credit and thinking they deserve better pay just becuase the company is making money hand over fist. Both, yet simple, would be very difficult for Americans to accept.

El_jalepeno · 07-22-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike4beka

So you think through all these temp agencies throughout the country that americans are not given the same chances as legal "aliens" ?

Mike, this is so beyond Temp agencies which fill only a fraction of the jobs compared to direct contracts and B2B companies as well as direct hires in the seasonal market. Temp agencies will also outsource a project if the client will buy into it becuase the profit margin is substantially higher. This I base on my own observations.

ericgtr · 07-22-2005, 02:03 PM

This is a good point, there are many different levels of this going on. Many hispanics take lower paying jobs in fast food, etc. especially in places like California or even Oregon where I live. Then you have those who take the shitty labor jobs, who cross the border illegaly and such, working to provide food and shelter for their families and doing jobs that others will not. Though it's not legal, I have to respect how willing and hard working they are. Had we had it as tough as they do, we probably would be too.

If they are here legally and obtain a job at Jack in the box then more power to them, they've went through what it takes and are going throught the proper motions.

**Beka4MikE** · 07-22-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_jalepeno

Mike, this is so beyond Temp agencies which fill only a fraction of the jobs compared to direct contracts and B2B companies as well as direct hires in the seasonal market. Temp agencies will also outsource a project if the client will buy into it becuase the profit margin is substantially higher. This I base on my own observations.

Well put on the profit margin because I mentioned earlier ...it is all about the Dollar Bills! The company I work for did over 5 billion dollars in revenue and we made nearly a billion dollars in profit in the end. They cut a ton of jobs here in the states for administration purposes and have hired and outsourced a bunch of them. When keeping the jobs here would really only cost a fraction of our profit. The excuse they use is so they can get an outside look at our company.

I still think we shoot ourselves in the foot when it comes to certain job opportuinities......

Are you seeing a lot of this where you are at EL?

Teleplayer324 · 07-22-2005, 02:35 PM

Another issue to be considered, whether illegal or a legal immigrant is that Americans have gotten spoiled and think many jobs are beneath them. When can you honestly say was the last time you say a white dishwasher or maid? When was the last time you saw a white janitor? It used to be kids were clamoring to get jobs at fast food joints, now they all want to work in boutiques in the mall, no cleaning out deep fryers or grease traps for them.
Without the immigrant workers here things would collapse.
If you've a mind to look for a movie called "A day without a Mexican" funny, but a wake up call as well.

**nroberts** · 07-22-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teleplayer324

Another issue to be considered, whether illegal or a legal immigrant is that Americans have gotten spoiled and think many jobs are beneath them. When can you honestly say was the last time you say a white dishwasher or maid? When was the last time you saw a white janitor? It used to be kids were clamoring to get jobs at fast food joints, now they all want to work in boutiques in the mall, no cleaning out deep fryers or grease traps for them.

Well, kids these days are pussies

I laugh but it is true; of course not always. I got my head shat upon by chickens all night for $4 an hour. Fast food would have been nice.

But a white janitor I saw just a few minutes ago. The dishwashers are on leave w/o pay because summer is bad for college food centers...but they are white.

To tell the truth I haven't noticed a preponderance of hispanics in fast food but maybe I just live in the wrong part of the country.

**KC_ArtRocker** · 07-22-2005, 03:01 PM

Something that cracks me up is when I call some company's support desk (like SBC for instance) and someone answers, in a very thick and almost uncomprehensible Indian accent, and says their name is Steve or Janet or Christopher or some other stereotypical American name, like they are in America. It's like, your name ain't Steve! It's Habib or Abubu or some Indian name cause they outsourced this service to India but don't want the public to know that so they give them AMerican names to tell people who call. Then, I almost always end up getting pissed because I cannot understand what they are trying to tell me and I have to ask them to repeat themselves and then they get frustrated.

Sorry, that was a little out of left field, but I had to vent.