[How To] Guitar Painting Tips

[jimmerwoo]

I copied the discussion from another post regarding paint tips. Enjoy!
-EJ

[D.i.n.o]

Originally Posted by jimmerwoo

Thanks for checking it out, EJ and Irongolem!

As of today its got 15 coats of clear on it. 15 more to go and then a painful 2 months cure time before I can wet sand it and finish it off. I'll ressurect this thread in a couple of months.

In the meantime I have a 5150 to start!

That really looks great!

Just for future reference ...
If you're looking to acheive a "factory finish" (and with 30 coats of clearcoat, I assume you are), you should really reconsider using Krylon (or any other type of spraypaint) in the future.
I just really hate to see people work so hard doing these awesome paintjobs, and then waiting 2-3 months for a finish that will look like hell in just a matter of days following completion.
Krylon (or any other crap in a can) may be okay for relic paintjobs, but too many people have been mislead into thinking that this stuff will provide a nice "factory finish". Don't get me wrong, it will look nice and shiney ... for a couple days or so.

Trust me on this Jimmy ... I've done enough of those paintjobs to know and I don't make money off of ebooks or have any other reason to try to mislead you.

Krylon was not made for this type of application (factory finish) and doesn't work for this application. If you've been enticed by pretty pictures you've seen in ebooks or on websites, ask to see those same guitars now, or even a week after they've been completed and you will see what I mean.
Krylon takes at least a year to fully cure. Within that period, your finish will experience chemical reactions as it cures which may cause the finish to wrinkle and crack. This can also happen at the point where you have used a compound to buff out your finish. This stuff is VERY chemically unstable and not at all durable. Also keep in mind that you won't be able to keep the guitar in any sort of case because the fur lining will leave impressions in your finish. You won't be able to lean the body up against anything for the same reason. Even placing the guitar in your lap may leave impressions from your jeans in the finish.
Also, if you use a pickgaurd or have any hardware that comes into direct contact with the finish, you will notice it actually sink into that finish within a very short period of time. The paint is just way too soft to begin with and 30+ coats doesn't help matters.

I really encourage those who wish to obtain a factory finish, to stay away from of Krylon or any other spraypaint for that matter. The process requires a whole lot of time and effort, and provides very poor end results IMO.

I'm not trying to discourage you bro.
Your paintjob looks awesome and I really hope your project is the exception to all of this, but I just thought I should point these things out now ... especially since you're starting another project (5150).

If you have any concerns about this, I'd seriously recommend waiting for about a week after your current project is complete and make your own observations before using Krylon on your 5150.


JMO

[jimmerwoo]

D.i.n.o.
Thanks for the comments and advice, D.i.n.o. I started painting guitars when I bought John's PYOG book. I couldn't get my hands on half the brands he recommended 'cos I live in France and it's... well...VERY difficult to get hold of professional grade Home Improvement equipment, the Unions don't like it. I admit, I didn't get a particular shiney finish on my first guitar. I put that down to not having a high enough grade of grit paper (800) and the wrong kind of polish/swirl remover. I can't even ship this stuff over from UK or USA 'cos it's flammable. I also noticed the 'softness' of the finish when laying it down on stuff, it left an imprint...Luckily I had a wall hanger and I had other guitars to play so it's now over a year hanging and my first guitar has a pretty resilient finish now although still dull.

I bought a book which suggested using clear wood varnish (I've forgotten the chemical name for which type but it began with an N) diluted 50:50 with white spirit. You machine spray it on and It's sposed to give a hard, dry wet-sandable finish in 7 days. I've not yet splashed out on a machine sprayer. But I need to try it out on an old, spare bit of wood. If it works I may go over the top with a few coats and really let it cure a long long time. Mixing spray paints can sometimes cause a reaction though, so I'll have to check first. You heard of this varnish/spirit method?

Guitaral
As for pics of the Frankie...as stated before I used the pictures in the following Links for "inspiration". It isn't an exact replica.

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/CEVH-RED.htm
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...at&sa=N&tab=wi

Thanks to you both for the kind words.

[D.i.n.o]

Originally Posted by jimmerwoo

D.i.n.o.
Thanks for the comments and advice, D.i.n.o. I started painting guitars when I bought John's PYOG book. I couldn't get my hands on half the brands he recommended 'cos I live in France and it's... well...VERY difficult to get hold of professional grade Home Improvement equipment, the Unions don't like it. I admit, I didn't get a particular shiney finish on my first guitar. I put that down to not having a high enough grade of grit paper (800) and the wrong kind of polish/swirl remover. I can't even ship this stuff over from UK or USA 'cos it's flammable. I also noticed the 'softness' of the finish when laying it down on stuff, it left an imprint...Luckily I had a wall hanger and I had other guitars to play so it's now over a year hanging and my first guitar has a pretty resilient finish now although still dull.

I bought a book which suggested using clear wood varnish (I've forgotten the chemical name for which type but it began with an N) diluted 50:50 with white spirit. You machine spray it on and It's sposed to give a hard, dry wet-sandable finish in 7 days. I've not yet splashed out on a machine sprayer. But I need to try it out on an old, spare bit of wood. If it works I may go over the top with a few coats and really let it cure a long long time. Mixing spray paints can sometimes cause a reaction though, so I'll have to check first. You heard of this varnish/spirit method?

Guitaral
As for pics of the Frankie...as stated before I used the pictures in the following Links for "inspiration". It isn't an exact replica.

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/CEVH-RED.htm
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...at&sa=N&tab=wi

Thanks to you both for the kind words.

IMO, one of the main reasons none of this negative feedback on Krylon has been brought to light before is the fact that this paint and technique is usually done by people attempting their first paintjobs.
Most beginners will interpret poor results as a reflection on their lack of experience, and in most cases, continue using the same paint, with the same techniques, with the same poor results.

The fact that you can't handle the guitar, keep it in a case, rest it on a guitar stand, or even lay it on a rug the first year after you paint it should speak volumes.

I've seen a book called how to build "The Finish Protector" ...
Translation = a piece of wood mounted on the botton of your guitar stand providing a place for the strap pin to rest. What does that tell you?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I like to actually play my guitars!
I now do all my paintjobs in acrylic urethane.
Curing time ... about an hour 1/2 as opposed to over a year.

As far as varnish/spirits ... are you attemping a stain finish?
I'm not sure I follow you.

[jimmerwoo]

No it wasnt a stain finish, it was clear wood varnish (or at least what english people call varnish, it's clear coat that you brush on to the wood). I just remembered the chemical, nitrocellulose. This is "SUPPOSED" to be what household clear wood varnish is made of. As yet, I havent found ANY tins saying nitrocellulose on the side here in France. What's French for "nitrocellulose"? "Le Nitrocellulose"? LOL

So as yet I havent been able to even try it. And as I said before, cos it's flammable I cant ship this stuff in. Now where can I get my hands on a huge Vat of French Acrylic Urethane? do you dilute it with spirits? or buy it ready mixed at the right consistency to spray?

As for the "finish protector" I havent bought that, it seemed fishy from the start. Thanks for the advice...will look into this A.U. stuff.

[D.i.n.o]

Originally Posted by jimmerwoo

No it wasnt a stain finish, it was clear wood varnish (or at least what english people call varnish, it's clear coat that you rbush on wood). I just remembered the chemical, nitrocellulose. This is "SUPPOSED" to be what household clear wood varnish is made of. As yet, I havent found ANY tins saying nitrocellulose on the side here in France. What's French for "nitrocellulose"? "Le Nitrocellulose"? LOL

So as yet I havent been able to even try it. And as I said before, cos it's flammable I cant ship this stuff in. Now where can I get my hands on a VAT of French Acrylic Urethane? do you dilute it with spirits? or buy it ready mixed at the right consistency to spray?

As for the "finish protector" I havent bought that, it seemed fishy from the start. Thanks for the advice...will look into this A.U. stuff.

Ahhh, yes ... I'm familiar with nitrocellulose.
I don't have any personal experience with it, reason being ... nitrocellulose has a reputation for yellowing and cracking and those are things I try to avoid if at all possible. Still,there are many people who prefer nitrocellulose and swear by it.

The acrylic urethane I use needs to be mixed with a catalyst (not spirits).
What I use is actually automotive paint made by Dupont.
If you don't have access to a compressor or sprayguns needed to shoot 2-pac urethanes or the nitrocellulose, you may want to consider something like this .... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishin...pray_Unit.html

Again, I've never personally used these, but I've heard good things.

[jimmerwoo]

Well who wants a Cracking, Yellowing finish...? oh yes that's right, Yngwie!

Nice little tool from StewMac, but I think I'm gonna go and get a spraygun and compressor. I have other applications I can use it on, besides guitars. Thanks for the advice Dino, A.U. is the way to go!

....And thanks for checking it out the pics, Chris.

[guitaral]

acrylic urethane... interesting. jimmerwoo, post pics as soon as you're done! we got to see this; i'm getting too damn impatient! thanks for the pics, too. keep up the sweet work.

[jimmerwoo]

Thanks for the comments CC and guitaral. Nice that you keep checking back, that's what this post is for!

I now have 25 coats of clear lacquer on this thing and I'm hanging it to cure. I actually did a dangerous thing and switched lacquer brands half way through....I found one Brand of Clear Coat that had "urethane" written on it. But I'm not sure if it's ACRYLIC urethane, the label is all in French. But it does seem to harden and dry faster than the other stuff.

I tested it on a piece of wood sprayed with the lacquer I used previously, to make sure it didn't react. I still need to let this thing dry at LEAST a month, just to be sure. Then I'll do a nail test in the back where the neck plate goes to see if the clear coat has gone brittle. If it has, its ready to wet sand.

In the month I wait for it to dry I'm starting my 5150.

[jimmerwoo]

Okay - so here's a pic of the 5150 parts I'm starting with...while I wait for the Frankie to cure. This 5150 has to be PERFECT, and I've built and painted a few guitars up to now to make all the mistakes on.



Even the frankie I am not that bothered about mistakes 'cos the original was beaten up anyway. And afterall I am going for a broken scratchplate, unwired red pickup style, wires hanging out version....not the EVH Art Series style.

Anyway, I am posting a pic of the first guitar I built too. The VH Bumble Bee as I call it. The mistakes I made on this one are blindingly obvious...but I don't care, cos it plays great and returns to tune when you dive bomb the crap out of it.




Mistakes Made on the VH Bee

1) Wrong shaped body...I don't know what guitar this used to be, I don't recognise the shape at all. I got it from ebay for about 15 quid.

2) See where I filled the pickup holes?...That's recessed filler drying out and sinking. If you are gonna fill a hole do it with wood....or Marine Epoxy.

3) Over-vigorous wet sanding went through the clear coat AND the black paint and left a little yellow mark under the strings.

4) Forced-Matched some no name neck with this weird body..result: Problems. See how I chipped the neck pocket forcing the neck in? Also the heel prolly sticks out to far. It's amazing this guitar even intonates. I may repaint it some day...and if I ever find out the make (it has a wide at the bottom - thin at the top neck screw configuration) I may get a neck that is sposed to fit it.

I'm glad I made these mistakes on this guitar, cos now I can concentrate on making the other ones really good.

[Edaholic]

Looks like you're doin what I had to do. Learn from mistakes.
Ive been makin these things a while now, and for a long time, it seemed each one got better. Dont give up. If you have any questions, no matter how stupid you think they are, Email.
Nice work by the way.

[jimmerwoo]

Nice work Ed, very nice indeed. And well taken pics too. Here's something I always wondered...Silly Question I know....

What does EVH use to stick his picks to the lower horn of his guitars?

I heard double sided sticky tape, but it has a silvery finish to it in all the photos I've seen. I would guess with all the duct tape lying around in Roadies' tool cases on tour, it would be a looped length of Silver Duct Tape stuck over on it's self to make a thin tube, then applied and flattened to the guitar body.

And now a more sensible question...

What do YOU use for Gloss/Clear coating? You've read the rest of this thread. Dino uses Acrylic Urethane, I found something I think is Acrylic Urethane in a rattle can by a German company called Kwasny Brand name is Altona...What's your input?

[Edaholic]

Your guess is dead on with the tape. Its just rolled up Duck tape.
I get this question alot about the clear coat. Also alot of argument with the tone freaks. Dont know how much access you have where your at. but acrillic is just as good as any. It has the same qualitys as nitro or poly. I went through the gambit of testin and re-testin. They all take the same amount of time to set (around 2 months) and only the neighbors dog can tell the difference tone wise. I only use nitro if a customer requests it. If you can get Krylon Crystal Clear Triple Thick or the like, that will work fine.

[Megondeth]

Hey .. here you have a cool link. You can see eddie tapeing and painting the guitars

http://www.evh-guitars.com/

[Edaholic]

Originally Posted by Megondeth

Hey .. here you have a cool link. You can see eddie tapping and painting the guitars

http://www.evh-guitars.com/

They are cool shots. Those were the special guitars Charvel sent to Eddie to personally tape up for a promotional deal. Im sure Ed got some bucks. For the Eddie freaks like me but with some serious cash, they were cool score. They had a special name. Kudos or Kados or somethin like that. Every once in a while, you see one on eBay.