Question regarding Zep '69 live guitar sound

[mknight]

I've always kinda wondered about 2 different sounds that Page got during the tour. I know some of the things that were consistent during that year; Vox/Colorsound Tonebender, Vox or Crybabys Wahs, Tele or Les Paul (~May to Dec).

I love his sound of Dazed and Confused on the Staines show (Mar 25) that was released on Supershow. I remember seeing it for the first time around 1990 and being blown away (not just the sound but the performance blew the shit out of pretty much everything on TSRTS). What is he using to get that awesome clipping sound during the main "power B chord"? I never really heard that on any of the other boots from around that time (or later, for sure). Is it possible that the way they recorded it helped make it? I know Page used different amps live then ... I've always wanted to achieve that sound or something close to it

The other one would be the great slide sound on the Whole Lotta Love from the June 26 BBC session (the one that many say is better than the studio release, which I almost have to agree with!). Again, I've never heard anything like it. On this one of course, since they were able to overdub, I suppose it is possible that there is 2 or maybe even 3 guitars doing it. I would like to know if anyone here knows or maybe someone could tell me where I could post this to get a knowledgeable response. Thanks in advance

[mknight]

Damn, I thought it WAS after 12:00, so that it would post on Wednesdays "New Posts". Just bumping to get it on there ...

[mknight]

It sucks to resort to bumping my own thread, but I REALLY want to know the answer to these questions. So if I annoy anyone, I apologize ahead of time ... but it also might help annoy someone into giving me an answer/direction!

[zep_master]

The Vox Valvetronix setting on U.K. Modern gets a page sound out of it.

[lamotta77]

The best place I know of to get a definitive answer on this is:

http://www.thegearpage.net/new_index.php

There are some extremely knowledgable people in there about Jimmy Page and his gear which I learned a lot from.

I will tell you that Page's tone in those early days came almost entirely from his Tele and the Sola Sound Tonebender MKII fuzz pedal. During solos, he may have had his Wah set to the toe down position for that trebly sound.

His amps varied a great deal in those early days, but luckily it really doesn't much matter. Something like a Vox AC15/30 will get you very near there.

[lamotta77]

For the closest Tele available today to Page's, get yourself a 60s Custom Classic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...4&src=3SOSWXXB

For a MKII fuzz clone, I own this one myself and love it:

http://gundrymedia.typepad.com/throb...bender_mk.html

[mknight]

Thanks for replying guys!

Cool pedal Lamotta - I'll have to check out one and compare it to mine. Mine is pictured at the bottom of this webpage, on the left side

http://www.stompboxes.co.uk/gpage2.html

The sound Page gets on most of the 69 tour is like mine/yours, but that chord he hits in that show sure sounds different. Check out the video and play just that part - tell me what you think.

Yeah, the wah part is definitely in the toedown position, but I'm still wondering if thats 2 parts overdubbed at the same time? He never seemed to reproduce that ever again on tour, if even a 'thinner' sound of one slide playing ...

[mknight]

Thanks for replying guys!

Cool pedal Lamotta - I'll have to check out one and compare it to mine. Mine is pictured at the bottom of this webpage, on the left side

http://www.stompboxes.co.uk/gpage2.html

The sound Page gets on most of the 69 tour is like mine/yours, but that chord he hits in that show sure sounds different. Check out the video and play just that part - tell me what you think.

Yeah, the wah part is definitely in the toedown position, but I'm still wondering if thats 2 parts overdubbed at the same time? He never seemed to reproduce that ever again on tour, if even a 'thinner' sound of one slide playing ...

[lamotta77]

Originally Posted by mknight

Thanks for replying guys!

Cool pedal Lamotta - I'll have to check out one and compare it to mine. Mine is pictured at the bottom of this webpage, on the left side

http://www.stompboxes.co.uk/gpage2.html

Oh, you have the original? Wow, that's pretty damn cool. The only thing is that I know the Throbak Stonebenders are made consistently and voiced to Jimmy Page's whereas a lot of the originals were quite inconsistent depending on the quality of the germanium transistors they used. Therefore, it might be worth checking one of these out and see which you like better.

The sound Page gets on most of the 69 tour is like mine/yours, but that chord he hits in that show sure sounds different. Check out the video and play just that part - tell me what you think.

Yeah, the wah part is definitely in the toedown position, but I'm still wondering if thats 2 parts overdubbed at the same time? He never seemed to reproduce that ever again on tour, if even a 'thinner' sound of one slide playing ...

I wish I could tell what amp that was, but I can't make it out. Interestingly, it seems to have a solid state kind of tone to me, but I have no clue if it actually is.

I bet if you asked this on the GearPage, at least one person would figure it out...there are some amp geniuses over there.

[lamotta77]

Nevermind, I posted the question there already and I'll let you know what they say. You got me curious now. Haha.

[lamotta77]

I figured it out..I popped in the Led Zep DVD with a clear version of this video and I can see it now. They are using Watkins (WEM) amps, but I'm not sure which models they are.

http://www.watkinsguitars.co.uk/ampcombo.htm

Pretty amazing isn't it?

[mknight]

Wow! I can honestly say I'm confounded by that one. Its been a long time since I've been as surprised as I am, about not knowing one of Page's early gear choices - not only that, but I've never really heard of this entire amp line! Shit ... I don't know what to say. Do ya think that might be the 'other' factor that changed the way it sounded compared to other recordings from that year? This makes me wanna know more about Watkins for sure

Yes, I'm not sure which type of germanium they put in mine - I would like to think they're mullards. But its possible that an offbrand, that is inconsistent was used. Now, I'm gonna have to go to my local vintage store to find out what is in mine and if they have upgrades!

[lamotta77]

Well, it's hard to say exactly what they did when they recorded and mastered this track. No doubt that the type of mics and preamps they used has an effect...possibly some post-eq'ing as well...who knows.

I've never heard a Watkins (WEM) live in person before, so I have no clue if they'd sound like Page's did in this show with a close replica of his Tone Bender and Tele. I suppose that if you ever happen to find one of these old amps on Ebay, you could buy one pretty cheap and try it out. It just might be your holy grail tone, you know?

Personally, I think my Vox AC155CC with my Stonebender sounds pretty damn close to this even when I play through my Les Paul. It seems to me that the fuzz pedal makes all the difference and I know people on The Gear Page agree with this. There's a guy on there that goes by the name 'Free' that's actually in a great Zeppelin cover band and he knows just about everything there is to know about Page's gear. He concluded that the amp itself matters little because Page was using the fuzz pedal as a primary means of distortion anyway.

It was really cool trying to figure this out though. I have NEVER heard of Watkins (WEM) amps before either and it's puzzeling how one of the greatest bands in the world used them at one time and probably almost no one else has heard of them either!