Whats a good tube amp to start with on a budget for older vh type tones.
unchained81
a Line6 spider 212 with the effects expansion pedal is very versitile for most purposes...
you can use up to 4 out of 8 effects at one time and adjust them all individually...
the expansion pedal board gives you 32 pre-programmed amps at the click of your foot...
HOWEVER... i am also learning that tone is more about technique and playing style... in others words "it's in your fingers"...
BTW... i bought one of these in mint used condition several months ago for under$400.00
just my opinions...
...Dave
you can use up to 4 out of 8 effects at one time and adjust them all individually...
the expansion pedal board gives you 32 pre-programmed amps at the click of your foot...
HOWEVER... i am also learning that tone is more about technique and playing style... in others words "it's in your fingers"...
BTW... i bought one of these in mint used condition several months ago for under$400.00
just my opinions...
...Dave
I'm getting it closer and closer with the XT than I ever did with my 5150's BUT that's just recorded tone. Live, I'd prolly say a 5150 combo....they seem to have better compression than using a top and 4 x 12. You'd also have to chuck a good pahser and flanger in there as well as some good reverb and delay. I used a Line6 Modulation Modeller for the Phase 90 and flanger stuff and I know their Delay Modeller is really good as well.
Ibanezcollector is right,to get that sound you will need to spend..
Splawn Quickrod...
these aint cheap but its all you need!!
http://www.splawnguitars.com/amps_products.htm
Splawn Quickrod...
these aint cheap but its all you need!!
http://www.splawnguitars.com/amps_products.htm
My JSX Ultra channel can get that sound....let's see.....I'd probably mod an old plexi to have a little more BROWN gain, not to over the top.
Man, the 2000 series Marshalls can get kinda close.
The cat who replied up front pretty much says it, not knowing exactly what he used. An old plexi, a echoplex and eq to boost the input.
I much like the Scorpions tone off Blackout and Love at First sting , which to me sound similar.
ET
Man, the 2000 series Marshalls can get kinda close.
The cat who replied up front pretty much says it, not knowing exactly what he used. An old plexi, a echoplex and eq to boost the input.
I much like the Scorpions tone off Blackout and Love at First sting , which to me sound similar.
ET
My advice is get a PODXT live get the metal masters upgrade pack with the 5150 on it. It gets as close as any amp that you can buy plus you get the phaser, flanger, and chorus which are all essential parts of the VH tone. You just cant beat it for the price considering the sound that your trying to go for.
I read once about Eddie and his sound in some old guitar book.
Remember, to get that magical tone and sound, most guitar legends PLAY VERY LOUD. Serioulsy, you can't imitate a sound 100% thru modeling and think you will sound like your hero. It's just gotta be turned up!
I was gonna paraphrase how he gets his sound....but why not let Eddie speak for himself?!
EVH: Okay, I use a combination of two different kinds of amps. They?re both Marshalls, but one kind actually has less power than the other, which is boosted. I use them together. The ones that have less power have a giant capacitor in conjunction with the fuse; if anything happens, the fuse blows first. The capacitor has something to do with the computerized ignition system of a car. I can?t give you the exact specs, but it looks like a stick of dynamite, only fatter. What it does is suck juice. I hook it up to the fuse holder and the mains, and it lowers the voltage about ten volts so the amp lasts a little bit longer. It doesn?t really change the sound, but whatever I use, I use to the max. I just turn it all the way up. So this capacitor lowers the voltage and the amp lasts a little longer. I still have to retube them once a week. (Editor?s Note: This is not a recommended procedure for modifying amps and should not be attempted by anyone inexperienced in the field of electronics and amp modification.)
GP: What is done to the other kind of amps?
EVH: I use a Variac, which is like a dimmer on a lighting system. It?s an autotransformer which goes all the way from 0 to 160. In the studio I crank it up to 140 and watch the tubes melt! (Editor?s Note: Again, this is not a recommended procedure for modifying amps, as Paul Rivera of Rivera Research and Development points out: ?You can cause severe damage to the amp besides melting tubes. Since a Variac is an exposed transformer, by hooking it up incorrectly you could get the hot of the AC line on the chassis of the amp and electrocute yourself. Anyone wishing to attempt this sort of modification should go to a knowledgeable repairman.?)
GP: Do you lose many amps during your shows?
EVH: Yeah, but I have so many of them. I have like 12 to 15 100-watt Marshalls onstage in pairs of four, hooked up together. Then I have three switches where if the first stack blows, I can switch in the next one. That?s about it for live. I have such a big setup: 80 12? speakers for my last setup, which was the equal of 20 Marshall cabinets. The next one will be World War III. But it?s not for over-blitzed noise.
GP: Is it to refine the sound?
EVH: It?s to make a good tone even louder. Some people get a sound like an amplified AM radio. I like it to be like a nice home stereo amplified -- you now, the difference between tone and no tone. I have some other tricky stuff in my amps which I don?t even want to talk about because if someone reads it in the magazine they are going to hit up Jose, an old guy from Argentina who knows a lot of tricks and does stuff for me. He doesn?t want people to know who he is because he?s getting mobbed. He also puts little things inside my MXR stuff, like permanent gain controls that boost when I kick them on. I don?t even know what they?re called. They reduce noise and boost the signals.
GP: Do you have the sound you want?
EVH: Sometimes. It depends on the arena, depends on my mood. It?s dependant on a lot of things. I?ll tell you, the best sound I ever get is sitting home alone playing through that little Bandmaster cranked on 10.
GP: What do you use as an onstage monitor?
EVH: We use two giant Showco M-4?s (four way cabinets), which are actually like a complete system in themselves. They have the highs and lows and everything. The only thing I add to the mix is a teeny bit of my voice, so I can hear if I?m in tune with my guitar and my brother.
GP: Do you ever have trouble hearing yourself?
EVH: Never. Dave and Mike won?t even come to my side because I?m so loud. But there is a difference between being just loud and having what I call a warm, brown sound -- which is a rich, toney sound. I guess a lot of people are tone deaf and can?t figure it out because they just crank it up with a lot of treble just for the sake of being loud. Anyone can do that. I can actually play so loud onstage that you won?t hear anything else, but I don?t really like to do that. I like to get a balanced sound.
GP: How loud do you play in the studio?
EVH: Very loud. I use four 100-watt Marshalls, which are cranked up to close to 600-watts with the Variac. I like to feel it, you know, make my arm hairs move. If you stand in front of a big PA you vibrate. It?s the way I get off. I don?t wear ear plugs, either, so I?m surprised I?m not deaf yet. We used to get kicked out of clubs because I refused to turn down. It?s the only way I could get a sound -- crank it all the way up.
Complete link:
http://www.vhlinks.com/pages/interviews/evh/gp0480.php
Remember, to get that magical tone and sound, most guitar legends PLAY VERY LOUD. Serioulsy, you can't imitate a sound 100% thru modeling and think you will sound like your hero. It's just gotta be turned up!
I was gonna paraphrase how he gets his sound....but why not let Eddie speak for himself?!
EVH: Okay, I use a combination of two different kinds of amps. They?re both Marshalls, but one kind actually has less power than the other, which is boosted. I use them together. The ones that have less power have a giant capacitor in conjunction with the fuse; if anything happens, the fuse blows first. The capacitor has something to do with the computerized ignition system of a car. I can?t give you the exact specs, but it looks like a stick of dynamite, only fatter. What it does is suck juice. I hook it up to the fuse holder and the mains, and it lowers the voltage about ten volts so the amp lasts a little bit longer. It doesn?t really change the sound, but whatever I use, I use to the max. I just turn it all the way up. So this capacitor lowers the voltage and the amp lasts a little longer. I still have to retube them once a week. (Editor?s Note: This is not a recommended procedure for modifying amps and should not be attempted by anyone inexperienced in the field of electronics and amp modification.)
GP: What is done to the other kind of amps?
EVH: I use a Variac, which is like a dimmer on a lighting system. It?s an autotransformer which goes all the way from 0 to 160. In the studio I crank it up to 140 and watch the tubes melt! (Editor?s Note: Again, this is not a recommended procedure for modifying amps, as Paul Rivera of Rivera Research and Development points out: ?You can cause severe damage to the amp besides melting tubes. Since a Variac is an exposed transformer, by hooking it up incorrectly you could get the hot of the AC line on the chassis of the amp and electrocute yourself. Anyone wishing to attempt this sort of modification should go to a knowledgeable repairman.?)
GP: Do you lose many amps during your shows?
EVH: Yeah, but I have so many of them. I have like 12 to 15 100-watt Marshalls onstage in pairs of four, hooked up together. Then I have three switches where if the first stack blows, I can switch in the next one. That?s about it for live. I have such a big setup: 80 12? speakers for my last setup, which was the equal of 20 Marshall cabinets. The next one will be World War III. But it?s not for over-blitzed noise.
GP: Is it to refine the sound?
EVH: It?s to make a good tone even louder. Some people get a sound like an amplified AM radio. I like it to be like a nice home stereo amplified -- you now, the difference between tone and no tone. I have some other tricky stuff in my amps which I don?t even want to talk about because if someone reads it in the magazine they are going to hit up Jose, an old guy from Argentina who knows a lot of tricks and does stuff for me. He doesn?t want people to know who he is because he?s getting mobbed. He also puts little things inside my MXR stuff, like permanent gain controls that boost when I kick them on. I don?t even know what they?re called. They reduce noise and boost the signals.
GP: Do you have the sound you want?
EVH: Sometimes. It depends on the arena, depends on my mood. It?s dependant on a lot of things. I?ll tell you, the best sound I ever get is sitting home alone playing through that little Bandmaster cranked on 10.
GP: What do you use as an onstage monitor?
EVH: We use two giant Showco M-4?s (four way cabinets), which are actually like a complete system in themselves. They have the highs and lows and everything. The only thing I add to the mix is a teeny bit of my voice, so I can hear if I?m in tune with my guitar and my brother.
GP: Do you ever have trouble hearing yourself?
EVH: Never. Dave and Mike won?t even come to my side because I?m so loud. But there is a difference between being just loud and having what I call a warm, brown sound -- which is a rich, toney sound. I guess a lot of people are tone deaf and can?t figure it out because they just crank it up with a lot of treble just for the sake of being loud. Anyone can do that. I can actually play so loud onstage that you won?t hear anything else, but I don?t really like to do that. I like to get a balanced sound.
GP: How loud do you play in the studio?
EVH: Very loud. I use four 100-watt Marshalls, which are cranked up to close to 600-watts with the Variac. I like to feel it, you know, make my arm hairs move. If you stand in front of a big PA you vibrate. It?s the way I get off. I don?t wear ear plugs, either, so I?m surprised I?m not deaf yet. We used to get kicked out of clubs because I refused to turn down. It?s the only way I could get a sound -- crank it all the way up.
Complete link:
http://www.vhlinks.com/pages/interviews/evh/gp0480.php
Sorry, but 'as close as any amp you can buy'?:icon_blah Are you serious? have you ever spent any real time with a Bogner, Splawn, or a Plexi?jpg5150 said:
:wutblau:
The modeller may sound OK (just OK) at bedroom levels, but when you get out and play at a real stage volume, it ain't even close. You need tubes, and you need to crank them up to where you get power-stage compression. This is the key to the 'brown' sound, and there is NO substitute.
Well, you're both right IMO.
Who has a ton of money (like EVH does) to not have to worry about melting amps and having large electric bills?
So modeling is a great alternative to imitate at a huge fraction of cost.
I posted that interview just to show how the pros achieve that sound.
Same goes for guys like Neli Schon (spelling?) from the band Journey.
On the album the guitar is mixed in and level and even with the rest of the band. But actually recorded with an amp in a different room in the studio (probably!) and is cranked to 10.
Plus you gotta remember that EVH and all the legends did NOT have amp modeling available when they hit the charts. So there was no cheating to get sounds. It's in your fingers and it's in practice and in cranking the volume.
Like most of you older guys, Hendrix was the one who got me into playing at a young age. Look at what equipment he used. Technology back then was horrible if you asked me as far as stomp boxes. Fuzzy, static-y .
That's why, IMO, they really are guitar heros. They did so much with so little!
I saw Jeff Beck in a small club once plugged into a simple footswitch of some kind and then into his amp. Went home tried to copy some of the things he was doing with his fingers(he doesn't use picks) and tried to sound like him. I felt like jumping off a bridge. I was in awe! I quit playing for several years because of that nite.
Here's some of Beck's mystery unraveled...
http://www.guitar.com/cda/ColumnCorner/article_display.aspx?CodaID=794683
Who has a ton of money (like EVH does) to not have to worry about melting amps and having large electric bills?
So modeling is a great alternative to imitate at a huge fraction of cost.
I posted that interview just to show how the pros achieve that sound.
Same goes for guys like Neli Schon (spelling?) from the band Journey.
On the album the guitar is mixed in and level and even with the rest of the band. But actually recorded with an amp in a different room in the studio (probably!) and is cranked to 10.
Plus you gotta remember that EVH and all the legends did NOT have amp modeling available when they hit the charts. So there was no cheating to get sounds. It's in your fingers and it's in practice and in cranking the volume.
Like most of you older guys, Hendrix was the one who got me into playing at a young age. Look at what equipment he used. Technology back then was horrible if you asked me as far as stomp boxes. Fuzzy, static-y .
That's why, IMO, they really are guitar heros. They did so much with so little!
I saw Jeff Beck in a small club once plugged into a simple footswitch of some kind and then into his amp. Went home tried to copy some of the things he was doing with his fingers(he doesn't use picks) and tried to sound like him. I felt like jumping off a bridge. I was in awe! I quit playing for several years because of that nite.
Here's some of Beck's mystery unraveled...
http://www.guitar.com/cda/ColumnCorner/article_display.aspx?CodaID=794683
"Think in terms of total signal path from pickup configuration to full-range monitor speakers"
This quote is from the link below, and I find it to be the most important way to look at your tone, however I would ad that pick attack is a huge part of Ed's particular tone.
The proper dialed in tone from the PODxt when fed at a lower signal level into effects and EQ then into a clean power amp (which powers the Marshall cabinets) is the exact concept that Ed used in the early days with a Marshall head and dummy load. You can do the same thing with home recording into the PC, however the only challenge is trying to simulate speaker distortion (smoothing). I stumbled on this tone in the RWTD clip recording with the PODxt and I can't seem to get it back these days. It's all so illusive!
Here is a link that approaches this subject from the ground up, it's the best I've seen:
http://www.amptone.com/eddievanhalenrig.htm
This quote is from the link below, and I find it to be the most important way to look at your tone, however I would ad that pick attack is a huge part of Ed's particular tone.
The proper dialed in tone from the PODxt when fed at a lower signal level into effects and EQ then into a clean power amp (which powers the Marshall cabinets) is the exact concept that Ed used in the early days with a Marshall head and dummy load. You can do the same thing with home recording into the PC, however the only challenge is trying to simulate speaker distortion (smoothing). I stumbled on this tone in the RWTD clip recording with the PODxt and I can't seem to get it back these days. It's all so illusive!
Here is a link that approaches this subject from the ground up, it's the best I've seen:
http://www.amptone.com/eddievanhalenrig.htm
:lol:I wish I could sing like that! Nope, just me on the guitar. That is just an example of what a POD can help do in a home recording setup. When I recorded that my wife was ten feet away enjoying her favorite TV shows unaware of me at all (reveling away with my headphones on). There have been several occasions where I broke down and tried to record with my old Marshall head, but I really hate dealing with all that heavy furniture these days, so I happily reverted back to the POD. Don't forget to read through this link!Hooper said:
http://www.amptone.com/eddievanhalenrig.htm
I was just curious when I asked which amp, Ive heard a couple people come close using different gear. I know Strat78 does an awsome job with the podxt, then Vhoholic comes really close with the 5150 heads and marshall cabs. Even the dude at jfrocks.com has a somewhat pleasant Vh tone with a solid state crate.
If I were to get another real amp for this kind of material, it would be one of these:
http://www.mojaveampworks.com/
http://www.mojaveampworks.com/
In the new issue of Guitar World, Eddie Van Halen basically admits he lied in all those old articles about his sound to trick people about his sound...I never understood this "myth" about having to buy expensive gear to sound like these guys. EVH's guitar was built on the cheap from junked spare parts..he played through used amps...the sound is in the fingers and the heart people...Hendrix used to walk into a pawn shop and grab a guitar off the rack, sure all that stuff is "vintage" and expensive now, but back in the 60's it was the cheap stuff..
It's all BS..as long as a guitar is set up right you can get a good sound..
It's all BS..as long as a guitar is set up right you can get a good sound..
There are a lot of fine amp makers out there. IMO this is the best deal you can find on a hand wired Plexi Superlead, order the complete amp chassis from here, $670 + $120 S&H to USA:
http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/marshallPlexi100/marshallPlexi100Complete.htm
Then put it in a head cab from here, $230 including any custom color:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/wccabs.htm#head
Buy some good tubes for it and you have a complete hand wired Plexi Superlead for around $1100 - $1200, about half what you'd pay for a similar amp from Marshall or other amp makers.
http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/marshallPlexi100/marshallPlexi100Complete.htm
Then put it in a head cab from here, $230 including any custom color:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/wccabs.htm#head
Buy some good tubes for it and you have a complete hand wired Plexi Superlead for around $1100 - $1200, about half what you'd pay for a similar amp from Marshall or other amp makers.
Good but I think Andrew from Mako Amplification uses better design/parts.tubetonez said:
www.makoamplification.com
That and the fact that you get a lifetime warranty, an effects loop, it's worth the extra $300 to me.
If you want a really descent amp that truly sounds great,, and even for van halen its truly close,, try out the new line 6 spider III amp. This amp is partial tubes as well,, and the vh tone comes real close with the brown sound you are lookin for. I've tried my spider III outright ,, and the sound is amazing.its great for direct or outright, and it wont break your bank either. You can get em brand new for 300 bucks.:thumb:
Go on youtube and search for Eddie playing Panama on the David Letterman Show.
He is playing through some floor amp but he still sounds like Eddie through his rig from that era. Although this was not a song from VH1, it demonstrates that Eddie makes Eddie's sound more than his gear does.
Learn to play like Eddie, I mean the finer things, having the notes and the chords correct (which most don't anyways) is just a small piece of that sound.
If you took most players and put them through Eddie's VH1 setup and let them play you would be shocked at how little it would sound like Ed.
Take any amp that you can afford that has decent distortion throw a little rev on it and keep practising until you really play like him!
Then you will have his sound, its not so much a magic receipe of gear as it is a magic receipe of preformance on Eds Part.
Golden Ears
He is playing through some floor amp but he still sounds like Eddie through his rig from that era. Although this was not a song from VH1, it demonstrates that Eddie makes Eddie's sound more than his gear does.
Learn to play like Eddie, I mean the finer things, having the notes and the chords correct (which most don't anyways) is just a small piece of that sound.
If you took most players and put them through Eddie's VH1 setup and let them play you would be shocked at how little it would sound like Ed.
Take any amp that you can afford that has decent distortion throw a little rev on it and keep practising until you really play like him!
Then you will have his sound, its not so much a magic receipe of gear as it is a magic receipe of preformance on Eds Part.
Golden Ears
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